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General Category => Modellers At Work => Topic started by: Malachi Constant on June 11, 2011, 10:12:08 AM



Title: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on June 11, 2011, 10:12:08 AM
(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-01.jpg)

Alrighty, so here we go ... my buddy Alan Carroll is quite prolific at bashing On30 locos, and he got going on bashing the Forneys several years ago ... which inspired me to start bashing one for use as a 1/35 scale, 2-foot gauge loco.  Got a little further than this a few years ago ... and got a bit side-tracked after that.   :-[  Meanwhile, Alan has done a bunch of new bashes, including 0-4-0T, 0-4-2T, 2-4-2T, etc. ... all of those look like good candidates for 1/35 conversion too, so I thought maybe I should try finishing one before getting any more "bright ideas."  ;D

Now, this little beasty has been getting bounced around, mangled and dusty for a few years now ... ANY/ALL thoughts and ideas about the overall arrangements, details, etc. are welcome ... as they might help me get past some of the indecision that's hovering over this dusty mess.  ::)   :P  8)

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-02.jpg)

First photo shows a scratchbuilt 1/35 scale cab and the "stock" On30 Forney details ... this one is the same image clumsily "photo-chopped" into an 0-4-0 ...

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-03.jpg)

This one shows the boiler with some Xeodon On30 domes for the Mogul that have been sectioned and made taller ... and loosely-placed 9mm scale (roughly 1/34) headlight and steam generator.  I have a spare Forney boiler that's unmolested, plus unmodified versions of the Xeodon domes ... and a variety of other domes in various sizes and styles ... so we're very open to making changes at this point to get a good look.  The tender is a Grandt Line On3 Porter tender, which seems rather huge in O scale but roughly the right size in 1/35.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-04.jpg)

I filed down the smokebox rivets and installed some larger ones ... but think I went a bit too big there ... again, have a spare "stock" boiler so I can backtrack on that as needed ...   ???

Also, think those 9mm headlight and generator castings are a touch on the large size ... thinking about scratchbuilding and casting some substitutes ... maybe 80% the size of these?  ???

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-06.jpg)

This compares the stock boiler and the one with larger domes and details ...

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-05.jpg)

And, from this angle, the size of headlight and generator don't bother me as much ... so, in case it isn't painfully obvious here, I've been boggled by elements of indecision but liking the overall ideas ... it's "early" enough in this dusty old project to change just about anything ... (which furthers the indecision of course!) ... so I'll ask what you guys like / don't like, think and/or suggest about moving forward with this.

PS -- Also thinking about adding doors to access running boards (not shown) on the front of the cab; changing to On3 size coupler a bit higher, etc ...

Thanks!
Dallas the boggled wannabe loco builder


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out load" (1/35 scale)
Post by: lab-dad on June 11, 2011, 10:38:38 AM
Interesting....
To me simply attaching a larger cab is not enough.
Also thinking out loud wouldn't the boiler be about 75% of the "right" size? Hence too small?
The 1/35 headlight makes the boiler look even smaller.
I think you need to enlarge the boiler.
-Marty


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out load" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on June 11, 2011, 10:53:24 AM
Thanks Marty --

That's all still open for discussion ... although I have to admit that I was thinking of actually making a SMALLER boiler ... along the lines of the attached photo.

Been looking at the funky little Glover locomotives ... some of which have really peculiar boiler configurations and placements (some sit very high over the drives) ... and some of those have "ridiculously tiny drivers" ... along the lines of what you'd get if you converted an HO loco to 1/35 (but the spokes would be too small)

Also looking at the little 60cm (roughly 2') gauge locos built for WW1 trench service ... and some of the little "teakettle" Maine 2-footers ... again, like the attached.

And, along those lines, part of the idea here is to use the On30 chassis as the basis for making a LARGER scale model of a SMALLER locomotive.  The driver size, wheel-base, boiler and other components become "smaller" when measured in the larger scale ... but there is a tremendous variety.  Second photo shows a tiny 0-4-0 ... notice that the little stack isn't even tall enough to clear the open cab (and the bum sleeping on the base of the display).

I can't recall where to find it, but there's a famous builder photo showing a really tiny steamer inside or alongside the boiler of a giant standard gauge loco ... anyone have a copy of that?

I sincerely DON'T know the ins-and-outs of boiler and cylinder sizing ... but there's a huge variety from tiny little "cigar tube" boilers to the really fat boilers on some of the D&RGW 3-footers ...

Again, all input and ideas wanted and appreciated.  Marty, thanks for getting things started.  -- Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out load" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on June 11, 2011, 11:05:58 AM
Another example ... tiny boiler, big domes, tall stack ...


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out load" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on June 11, 2011, 11:32:27 AM
First:  Kauai sugar plantation ... small boiler, relatively large domes and stack ...

Second:  How low can your boiler go?  Photo is obviously a "real" loco ... but that would have to be shown alongside the model to make the model "believable"  ;D


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: finescalerr on June 11, 2011, 01:32:25 PM
Why would you prefer to bash a semi-accurate product into a total kluge? Bashing occasionally has its place, but not nearly as often as some modelers think. Why not scratchbuild exactly what you want? It will be little or no additional work. -- Russ


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 11, 2011, 01:49:35 PM
Dallas,

I think the big difference between the photos, and what is likely causing part of the issue with your bash, is the length if the boiler, and the loco frame. I think if you got rid of the lead truck (you can always use it as a trailing truck under the cab), shortened the frame and the boiler, your bash would look much closer to the proportions that most your photos show.

This being from an earlier era of work from you, IMO, (and no offense) the cab construction lacks some of the finesse of your more current work...maybe it's just the styrene thickness, or the rivet size/appearance...cant put my finger on it...but it seems chunky...especially around the windows and top, and looks like it can't decide if it wants to be a steel cab or a wood cab.

Marc


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on June 11, 2011, 01:56:54 PM
Marc -- Thanks for the candor and input!  Attached is a photo of an Alan Carroll On30 bash done that I've crudely photo-chopped to 1/35 scale.  Might need to shorten the smokebox ... but the overall proportions are quite similar to a Glover 0-4-2T (shown in the book, but haven't found any of that on the web).  I'd like to find a happy compromise between Russ' suggestion and the argument from my idiot selves presented below ... so on-going discussion is appreciated!  ;D  (For anyone who has the Glover book, see pp. 33 & 49)


Russ -- Because I have MPMD (Multiple Personalities Modelers Disorder) ...

One of me enjoys the challenge of scratchbuilding things and attempting to get somewhere close to "fine scale" and he's perfectly content to plod along slowly and do it right ...

Another one is a simple-minded idiot who gets a cheap thrill from watching choo-choos go roundy-round, and he'd like to see that happen sooner rather than later ... and he keeps reminding me how infernally long the scratchbuilt projects end up taking the first idiot!  ;D

So, likely that I'll go ahead and call her Kluge and finish her up just to make you barf and keep one of my idiot selves happy till I get far enough along on the "real" projects to dig into a "real mess" and start scratchbuilding some of the super-cool locos that I'd really like ...

Oops, gotta go, another one of me is running with scissors ... stop, stop!  -- Dallas

PS -- It certainly might turn out that Russ is completely right ... but I'd like to at least push the idea of doing a "good enough" bash for entertainment purposes to see if that would work in the interim ... any help along those lines appreciated!


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on June 11, 2011, 03:17:44 PM
Took Alan's 0-4-2T bash, printed it to match the size of the Glover (roughly) ... then did some additional photo-chopping ... and sonuvagun if it ain't pretty close.  Granted, this is really crude computer work and I skipped a bunch of mods ... end beams would have to be raised (which would be a good thing), cab details properly arranged, etc ...

Oh yeah, the particular Glover shown has angled cylinders and no visible ashpan ... but another small Glover has horizontal cylinders and visible ashpan very similar to the modified On30 bash ... and there are still quite a few Glover locos for which builder/service photos have never been found!  ;)  ;D

(Yeah, I'm still at it ... cast some resin parts ... play on the computer some more ... repeat ...Dallas)

(And, the boiler would actually have to be a little smaller to accurately do the Glover)


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Krusty on June 13, 2011, 07:24:54 AM
Quote
Also, think those 9mm headlight and generator castings are a touch on the large size

Dallas

In the real world that type of headlight (a Pyle-National 20-C-300-N since you ask) was used on fairly large (by medium-gauge standards) main line locomotives -- 4-8-4s and other such boring tat -- so, yes, it is rather out of place on a civilised-size tank locomotive. The Pyle K2 generator, though, was a standard item that didn't change, whatever size headlight it was used to power.


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on June 18, 2011, 01:45:58 AM
Thanks again for the input & ideas ... I guess we have a good news / bad news situation here ...

-- The GOOD news is that I decided that Russ is more or less right ... and it would be a relatively straightforward deal to build a very plausible (at least to me) little Glover loco on the smooth-running Forney mechanism.  Very slight compromises required there, but I'm definitely not going to scratchbuild all the running gear!

-- Now, the BAD news is I couldn't bring myself to buy another Forney (need the inside-frame version) for THAT without doing "something" with THIS ... so, I'm going to go ahead and finish her as a little caricature locomotive ... and, yes, I definitely do enjoy that sort of thing from time to time.  ;D

So, now's the time to look away or jump to another thread ...

Go ahead ...

LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!

There's still time ...

The little red X on the top right of your screen in extreme emergencies ...

....

....


....


...

Okay, fair warning is over ...

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-22a.jpg)

Made a little more progress, found a PSC stack in the stash that I like and a rather large O scale headlight that should do the trick ...

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-24a.jpg)

Look who climbed aboard!  Oh yeah, going with the caricature theme, this will be a little loco made for an excursion line to serve some hot springs ... taking passengers from a meeting point with ye olde standard gauge to a cozy spot up in the mountains ... kinda like the Mt. Gretna RR theme (also 2 foot gauge) ...

Won't bother y'all too much more with this until the hideous final pix are ready!  (Not that anyone has actually read this far.)  ;D

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on June 18, 2011, 04:02:24 AM
OK Dallas ,I kept reading ........... and survived probable because I know little about trains, especially American Narrow Gauge.

Me, I like it, especially now that you have changed the stack(chimney?) and got rid of  those rivets  and I think with some paint on it it will look, interesting  ;) .... think you are going to have to go with a pretty pristine paint job ,maybe Brunswick green ,gold/yellow lining and some satin black on various bits

I suppose I would be tempted to loose the front truck(?) maybe as suggested earlier put it under the cab and bring the buffer/coupling(?) beam back to just ahead of the boiler ........... but as I say that suggestion is based on no knowledge what so ever, purely on what I like.

So you keep on having fun


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: 78ths on June 21, 2011, 07:50:01 PM
Looking great. wow some very inspiring ideas. Yes it is hard to stay away from - REAL hard.
If it weren't for lack of time I would be tempted...  looking forward to seeing the loco's progress.

cheers Ferd


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: marc_reusser on July 06, 2011, 04:58:38 PM
I like her...I think she is a fun, interesting and charming lokie. A great freelance build. Look forward to more progress.

...BUT...you have got to get rid of that hideous Kadee coupler...at least go with the San Juan/Sergeant ones.....though L&P would be even better on a small industrial shortline loco.

Please fix that pipe coming out of the cab....it's not horizontal...and really grates on my anal retentive nerves.

Marc


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 06, 2011, 11:33:18 PM
Thanks!  Yes, the hideous truth is that I've continued on with this little "kluge" without saying too much about that here ... and progress has been slow due to limited time.

#1)  The knuckle is gone!  I cut off the wide Forney-style deck and scratchbuilt a new pilot deck, beam and pilot patterned pretty closely after the one on Puffing Billy 2-4-2T #861 (thanks to Mario for that photo) ...

#2)  Don't get too worried about the plastic pipe!  That will go away ... I'll be scratchbuilding a new wood cab after your spot-on observations about the one currently shown ... the plastic pipes will disappear somewhere along the way, but I find them helpful in the "visualization" for now.

#3) Also leaning toward going to a 2-4-2 wheel arrangement, along the lines of Hawaii Ry. #5

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Chuck Doan on July 07, 2011, 08:41:12 AM
I like it.


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 18, 2011, 08:55:54 AM
(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-cab-01.jpg)

Thanks Marc & Chuck!  Following Marc's earlier criticism on the cab (much appreciated), I've been pondering that issue and surfing for ideas.  Found the little LK&P RR (aka Maui Sugar Cane Train) "Anaka" 2-4-0 with very similar overall proportions and a nice wood cab ... (oh, and the pilot area is very similar to the one I copied from an Australian loco)

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-cab-02.jpg)

Made some quick drawings and put together a mock-up of that ... may need to increase the cab height a bit.  Sides of earlier steel cab are 6" higher ... overall difference is more drastic because of very different roof design/pitch.  May need to increase the height of the new cab by 3" to 6" ... additional notes below.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-cab-03.jpg)

The loco takes on a rather different look with the new cab style -- any and all thoughts, ideas, etc. are welcome!  Note -- cab doors:  If these look "too small" ... you're absolutely right!  It appears that they are used for visibility & ventilation.  They ARE very narrow as shown here:
http://www.silverstatespecialties.com/Reference/Trains/LK&P-RR/LK&P-RR_Anaka_02.shtml
http://www.silverstatespecialties.com/Reference/Trains/LK&P-RR/LK&P-RR_Anaka_02a.shtml

And, even if they have some really skinny crew members who can squeeze thru those, it would be quite a challenge to climb over the backhead controls, piping, etc:
http://www.silverstatespecialties.com/Reference/Trains/LK&P-RR/LK&P-RR_Anaka_02d.shtml

Interestingly, the doors open INWARD against the cab sides ... and they're SOLID panels (no windows) ... the lines I've drawn represent raised molding.  Look for the door in the front left of cab here:
http://www.silverstatespecialties.com/Reference/Trains/LK&P-RR/LK&P-RR_Anaka_02e.shtml

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-cab-05.jpg) (http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-cab-06.jpg)

Increase height of cab sides?  This IS a "small" loco, but looks like the sides should be 3" to 6" taller.  (6" increase would match the height of the original steel cab sides)

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-cab-07.jpg)

Once the cab design is worked out, I'll extend the subfloor, extend the frame under the cab, add end beam and appropriate details in that area, etc.  Meanwhile, this cab is just a mock-up ... so any/all thoughts and ideas welcome!

Thanks!
Dallas






Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 18, 2011, 01:03:04 PM
Looks good to me. I like the new cab design.


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: marc_reusser on July 18, 2011, 02:48:44 PM
Hmmm...me feels tht the cab is too long, with that much trunk space /overhang I would like to see a trailing truck.

I think I have some erection drawings for some sugar cane locos showing the wood cabs, that might be of interest....if you send me your email I will send you scans of them.....that ius if you want them.


Marc


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: finescalerr on July 18, 2011, 03:37:51 PM
Yep, seems like too much cab overhang. It might tip the front of the loco into the air. -- Russ


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Chuck Doan on July 18, 2011, 05:15:47 PM
He can always have some mini-Mudgeons ride on the pilot.


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 18, 2011, 07:12:38 PM
(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-cab-00.jpg)

First of all ... thanks!  Still have to mull it over ... and y'all might be right on the cab overhang ... though it matches that LK&P loco shown.  They have two about this size ... one of those was a 2-4-2 for a while, but they had trouble with the trailing truck derailing ... considered a trailing truck with one of shorter paper cabs as shown above ... might work better with the new long cab style.  

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-cab-08.jpg)

The overhang matches photo ... suspect that the (current) absence of under-the-cab frame detail and the few inches of missing cab height exaggerate the effect a bit ... but I'll probably mock-up a bit of rear frame with trailing truck to see how that look.  Sent Marc a PM for his references ... will continue to ponder this before actually building the parts.  Thanks again for the input.  That all helps as the ideas "stew" a bit.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/Gnitro-Gnat.jpg)

Of course, if the overhang proves to be too much, I can get my buddy Jim Favre to build me some wheelie bars!  That's another way of making it a 2-4-2, I suppose.  ;D

(Can only imagine what will happen if Mr. Hamilton happens to see that last photo!)

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: danpickard on July 19, 2011, 01:48:21 AM
Geez, I hope that mech has been geared accordingly!  I'm thinking slot car days when 1:1 ratio was slow.  Come to think of it, a loco like that could come in handy.  I get countless complaints from kids at exhibitions that our little geared loco's travel too slow...that thing ought to put them in line.

Dan


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Philip Smith on July 19, 2011, 05:42:24 AM
amen to a shorter cab!




I get countless complaints from kids at exhibitions that our little geared loco's travel too slow...that thing ought to put them in line.

Dan

tell the children your loco's are on dial up......

not a clue


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: marc_reusser on July 19, 2011, 04:03:01 PM
Dallas,

Got your PM...will scan them this week and get them out.


M




Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 20, 2011, 12:04:55 AM
Thanks Marc -- Will be interesting to see what new ideas or improvements those drawings might suggest.  Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on August 19, 2011, 09:44:12 PM
(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-25.jpg)

I'm still plugging away on kluge ... haven't reached a point where anything is "pretty" yet, but gonna throw out some updates before I lose track of those ... above:  sliced and spliced the boiler saddle to raise the boiler just a bit less than 3 scale inches, which provides a little "see-thru" space between boiler and frame.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-26.jpg)

The outside-frame members on the original Forney ended at the firebox/ashpan ... so did some rearranging and additions there to make it look more like the outside-frame chassis for a 2-4-0.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-27.jpg)

Triangular openings shown in frame here got some putty as shown below to round out the openings ... it'll all be a lot easier to see when there's some primer on it, but have a few more things to do before we get that far.  8)

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-28.jpg)

Chopped up, rearranged & rebuilt the original ashpan to fit between the frame members and provide space for a little decoder ...

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-29.jpg)

Added a little ash grate ... puttied the corners of those triangular frame openings ... built new cab floor ... raised back of boiler to match front.  Still a lot of little things like brake cylinders, hoses, pipes, fittings and such to "fill out" the rear end details ...

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-30.jpg)

Ash grate was made using some mesh ribbon from the craft store and bits of styrene ... will add some drop-wires to that later.  As mentioned, there's still nothing "pretty" here ... but starting to feel like kluge might shape up into a neat little loco!  Well, we'll see ...  ???  ::)  :P  :-\   ;D


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: finescalerr on August 20, 2011, 02:10:12 AM
What holds the extensions to the mainframe? I was looking for pins, screws, or attachment to an intermediate section (maybe the ashpan?) but nothing is obvious. That probably means you did a very good job. -- Russ


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on August 20, 2011, 03:16:25 AM
(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-31.jpg)

What holds the extensions to the mainframe? I was looking for pins, screws, or attachment to an intermediate section (maybe the ashpan?) but nothing is obvious. That probably means you did a very good job. -- Russ

Well, I didn't shoot pix at every little step of the way ... cuz it was kinda tricky and I didn't want to loose my train of thought!  ;D  But ... these photos might help a little.  

You can see a bit of metal under the styrene strip between B & C (above) -- that's a tab for mounting screw that holds the original metal frame piece.  The extensions were built up of various styrene strip and laminations.  The first piece has a simple butt joint against the metal frame at A -- plastic and metal surfaces roughed up, glued with ACC.  The lower strip (B/C) is made of two laminated pieces.  The thicker piece in back butts against the metal screw-mount tab at B.  A thinner piece over that overlaps the face of the screw tab along C.  Styrene pieces have solvent-welded joints along the lines D & E.

So, at right:  there are butt joints shown in pink, a surface joint shown in orange and solvent joints between plastic parts shown in blue ...

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-32.jpg)

The combination of butt joints and surface joint makes a sort of T-shaped joint as shown in pink here.  That and the diagonal brace go a long way to reinforcing the inherent weakness of simple butt joints.  Then I joined the two separate sides with a sub-floor between the cab and ashpan.  Again, the styrene parts are all solvent welded ... and this assembly creates an L-shaped joint between styrene and metal parts as shown in orange.  So, the combination of the T-shape and L-shaped gluing reinforcements makes it all rather sturdy ... despite the absence of pins and such.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-26.jpg)

Repeating one of the previous photos, you can see where the two separate metal pieces were unified with the extensions and the subfloor that goes between the cab and ashpan.  It took a LOT of concentration to make sure that this was all removable, as I'll probably have to disassemble/reassemble the whole lot a few times at various stages of painting/detailing.  (Yeah, I mean I really had to concentrate ... caught myself several times starting add little bits that would have "trapped" the assembly that has to be removable against the actual mechanical frame of the lokie!)

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-33.jpg)

Speaking of assembly/disassembly ... the ashpan fits over the screws that hold the outside-frame assembly in place, so that had to be removable too.  There are divets in the front (upper right of photo) that are shaped around the screw tabs and screw heads ... the little ears sticking up in front are bits of the pan that will show thru the opening in the frame behind the rear driver ... so those are there to insure that they'll be painted the same as the actual ashpan and it will appear to have the appropriate continuity.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-34.jpg)

And once the chassis is pretty much together and painted, the decoder and wires have to be tucked into the ashpan, so the bottom of that slides in place from the rear.  The little ash grate is very delicate, so I drilled two little holes in the bottom which allow it to be placed with tweezers instead of big fat fingers that will smash the little grate!  ;D  (This is probably pretty obvious, but just so you know that I know ... those little holes were added after this photo was taken)  ;)

Have to do a few more little details on the frame and rig up some brake shoes and such, then hope to get some primer on the various components to see where additional putty/fill and other corrections might be needed ... oh, also forgot to mention that I re-worked the cab drawings and have that nearly sorted out.  More on that after the frame stuff gets straightened up.

Cheers,
Dallas



Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on August 20, 2011, 03:38:49 AM
With the various thicknesses of styrene fitted around the various metal bits, I didn't think I could work out a fancy rounded opening in the frame extension ... which would have needed the same shape cut in a couple thicknesses of plastic ... so I "cheated" by framing a simple triangle, then doing the rest with putty (Magic Sculp) ... pressed that into the corners of the opening, and used various diameter drill bits to create the rounded corners.  Likewise, where the brace meets the bottom of the frame extension ... but there I was able to use my big fat finger to shape a curved fillet ... of course, this has all been sanded since these shots were taken.  -- Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: michael mott on August 20, 2011, 08:06:57 AM
Hi Dallas , nice work so far, regarding the but joints between the styrene and the metal, I have had some failures with these types of joints I would still be tempted to add a wafer of brass shim-stock say .0015" or .002" over the sides of the joint which will greatly add to the shear strength. With such a thin wafer the joint would hardly be noticeable to anyone except maybe yourself.

Just a thought.

Michael   


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on August 20, 2011, 08:52:15 AM
(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-31.jpg)

Michael --

I was very concerned about the weakness of butt joints ... that's why I did all the fancy overlapping and interlocking joints!  ;D

The metal tab underlying "C" acts as a biscuit -- it's sandwiched between the styrene overlay (which is solvent-welded to all the adjoining styrene pieces) and the styrene cross-member that ties the two sides together.  As a separate assembly, the modified metal/plastic frame will withstand some pretty substantial clumsiness ... in practical use, it gets screwed and sandwiched against the metal frame which further reduces any stress.  The sucker is sturdy!  (There will be a variety of delicate details on the loco that my big clumsy mitts might destroy however ... that's a separate issue.)  ;)

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Ray Dunakin on August 20, 2011, 07:41:11 PM
Very interesting!


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on August 21, 2011, 08:30:37 AM
(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-38.jpg)

Hi Dallas , nice work so far, regarding the but joints between the styrene and the metal, I have had some failures with these types of joints I would still be tempted to add a wafer of brass shim-stock say .0015" or .002" over the sides of the joint which will greatly add to the shear strength. With such a thin wafer the joint would hardly be noticeable to anyone except maybe yourself.

Just a thought.
Michael   

Well, Michael ... I decided to take your advice afterall ... on the next little bit of the project!  ;D  Had to shorten the Delrin brake assembly shown above.  So I added a splice plate as shown on the rear portion, then wrapped the joint twice around with very thin paper saturated with ACC.  That creates a sleeve around the joint and backing plate and stands up very nicely to "the flex test"  :)  Also beefed up the brake shoes and used little slices of styrene rod to suggest hardware on those.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-39.jpg)

The joints are a little bulky ... but conveniently hidden behind the rear drivers.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-40.jpg)

Them's the brakes!  ;D
-- Dallas





Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: michael mott on August 23, 2011, 07:31:49 AM
Dallas, thanks for the more detailed explanation, of the joints, I did not realize how interlocked the joints were. It is amazing how long these little conversions take isn't it. I would also agree with the time taken to allow for still being able to disassemble for maintenance etc. It is so easy to go one step to far and be locked in.

Michael   


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: finescalerr on August 23, 2011, 01:54:48 PM
Gott in Himmel! Wouldn't it be easier to scratchbuild?

As I look at the meticulous effort that has gone into reworking the frame and superstructure, it appears you have retained relatively little of the original, less than ideal, Bachmann components. I would think somebody with your skill and talent could scurry to a computer, crank out a few parts to photo etch, maybe 3-D print a couple of other odds and ends, build up the boiler and cab with your hot and dexterous little hands, and wind up with a virtually perfect replica of whatever it is you are replicating. Or freelancing. Or whatever.

The drive could be a Faulhaber motor and maybe Serv-O-Link chain. The thing would run better than anything Bachmann could mass produce.

These rambling thoughts are not to belittle the excellence of your accomplishment. Nope. Not one bit. They are to prod your obvious creativity: Look at what ol' FichtenFoo does with those, uh, "things" he imagineers. You could create similarly "perfect" and unique works of art from your heavily fertilized (and/or tranquilized or otherwise drugged) mind. I suspect they would be something to behold.

When the mood strikes, consider it.

Russ


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on August 23, 2011, 02:02:13 PM
Gott in Himmel! Wouldn't it be easier to scratchbuild? ... When the mood strikes, consider it.

Russ

Heh, heh, I was surprised you didn't come back with this recurring thought sooner!  I already had an answer prepared.  ;D

It's just different kinds of puzzles ... what I'm working on is kinda like a jigsaw puzzle ... someone took a pre-printed image, cut it into bits, and put it all together ... now, I'm taking it all apart, rearranging and redesigning some of the bits and putting it all BACK together again ... differently.

Now, that said, having all those starting bits does make it considerably less work than scratchbuilding from the ground up ... and, with all my many (very) slow-moving projects ... that is a very important expedient.

However ... your point has great merit ... I do want to build one of the little WW1 2-6-2T locos (several of which actually ran in West Virginia where I plan my fictional line) ... that might turn out to be a scratch-building project ... AFTER I finish the sammich shop and the repair shop ...

Meanwhile, this little beastie will give me something to run around on the tracks that pass by the repair shop (when we get that far) and give me a "feel" for building in 1/35 scale.

So, yeah, read you loud and clear!  Good point ... scratchbuilding is one kind of puzzle, kitbashing is another ... doing the latter first and the former later.  (That makes sense, doesn't it?)  ;D  -- Dallas

PS -- We had a palpable earthquake here earlier today ... 5.9 centered in Virginia ... yeah, I lived in LA briefly and know that's a small one ... but really unusual to "feel" and earthquake here ... and heard it was felt all the way up into Canada!


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on September 12, 2011, 08:02:37 PM
(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-41.jpg)

Well, despite the earthquake and hurricane, no earth-shaking progress here ... just little bits and pieces as time permits, like some fittings on the cylinder assemblies.  Made the lubricator fittings from styrene rod, styrene strip cut to (approximately) hex shape for the taller bits and a Vector Cut nut in the center ...

Snifter valve made from Vector Cut bits, fine wire, styrene rod and a tiny little photo-etched washer for the cap on the rod.  Puffing Billy cylinder shown provides some inspiration for the details ... not going for an exact match, just going for the right "feel" to these details.

(http://www.bouldervalleymodels.com/images/fsrr/240-bash-42.jpg)

The PE washers came from Alliance Model Works LM35027 Nuts & Washers -- which is a VERY nice set ... lots of parts and they're on a FILM backing, so there's NO cutting to release the tiny bits!  Anyway, while getting those bits, some little bolt-head/washers caught my eye ... had a look thru the pix again and decided to go for the look shown on this little 0-4-2T Baldwin (also an Aussie loco).

Other than that, some occasional little progress with putty, prepping for paint and such ... nothing earth shaking, but thought I'd better show some signs of life!  (Kinda tied up getting ready for the "busy" season at work.) ;)

Cheers,
Dallas



Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Junior on September 13, 2011, 03:55:10 AM
Excellent work on that cylinder Dallas! The Alliance details looks great - I have the screw head set as well and used those on the doors for my current diorama (locks, hinges etc.) highly recommended! You can even mix them with the Vectorcut nut and bolts. Order some extras - you will loose some..... ;D even in 1/35 scale this is TINY stuff.

Anders


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Ray Dunakin on September 13, 2011, 10:34:06 AM
Dallas, what did you use to texture the surface of that cylinder?


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on September 13, 2011, 01:39:46 PM
Dallas, what did you use to texture the surface of that cylinder?


Um, I think that's just the combined effect of an extreme close-up and some Rustoleum auto primer sprayed just a little too dry (too far from surface)

Anders -- I have the screw heads too, and those are very nice.  Wish they made some of those even smaller.

BTW -- I found that Vallejo mat varnish is a really good light adhesive for applying the PE bolt heads, screw heads, etc.  Just put a tiny dab in the location, let it go slightly tacky and place the part.  It gives you time to move the part with tweezers or tip of knife and doesn't give you the nasty traces left by a smear of ACC, etc.  Let the parts applied with mat varnish set for a while ... 30 minutes or so ... then come back and go over the entire surface and over the top of the applied parts with a thin, slightly diluted coat of mat varnish to make sure that everything is secured.  (Let them set first, or the second coat will float away the parts!)  ;)

-- Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Ken Hamilton on September 13, 2011, 06:54:05 PM
This is coming along REALLY nicely.  Love the cylinder detailing.


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: michael mott on September 13, 2011, 11:03:35 PM
I like the way you are detailing this Dallas, what are vector cut nuts?

Michael


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Junior on September 14, 2011, 12:42:18 PM
Michael, here is www.vectorcut.com. Owner Dave Krakow.

Anders


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: finescalerr on September 14, 2011, 01:41:21 PM
Dave is an active member of the forum. His user name is "Dakra". If you are unfamiliar with his products, you should rush to his website. He is an artist with a laser. -- Russ


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on September 14, 2011, 07:04:00 PM
Michael --

Thanks ... and, ditto what Anders and Russ said.  Dave ("DaKra") of Vector Cut makes a neat assortment of goodies.  Photo below shows a sheet of photo-etched parts (brass) alongside two different-size sets of Vector Cut nuts & bolt heads (tan sheets).  I think he also makes the washers in a separate paper-thin sheet now too, which would be good for stacking parts.

And, he's got various gears and bits and so forth ... have a look thru the HO and O scale parts for various items that will prove useful in various scales.  He has also done custom bits for Anders, myself and other members of the forum ...

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: danpickard on February 03, 2012, 03:49:55 PM
Any further time for this lately Dallas?  I'll probably be riding this PB loco again in a few weeks, so though I might check in...

Dan


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on February 03, 2012, 03:53:05 PM
Hi Dan --

I was working on this while "stalled" on the 1/35 cafe ... that's going again, so this project is back on hold until the next "occasion" ... have given more thought to it though ... also thought of a potentially interesting display.  When I lived in Boulder, Colorado, there was a park with an old C&N / DB&W 2-8-0 loco on display with a car or two and a short length of track ... with a plaque ... something like that might be interesting.  Meanwhile, glad to be rolling on the cafe again ... hope that continues for a while ... then back to this when able.

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Malachi Constant on March 08, 2012, 03:34:40 AM
This site has HUNDREDS of photos of a pretty little outside-frame 2-4-0, including loads of detail and close-up shots:
http://www.thorsteamworld.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=1365

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: marc_reusser on March 08, 2012, 01:05:02 PM
Fantastic site, thanks! Exactly what I needed for reference images for my "abandoned 2-8-0 project".


Marc


Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: Ray Dunakin on March 08, 2012, 11:26:39 PM
Holy cow, that is the most thoroughly photographed loco I've ever seen! I don't think they missed a single detail. And what a beautiful little loco. I sure hope someone restores it, or at least preserves it.



Title: Re: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)
Post by: W.P. Rayner on March 08, 2012, 11:30:16 PM
Excellent link Dallas... loads of useful reference photos. Too bad all of our favourite locos aren't documented this thoroughly. Thanks for posting.

Paul