Westlake Publishing Forums

General Category => Painting & Weathering Techniques => Topic started by: JohnP on July 11, 2010, 07:48:24 PM



Title: How to model this rust finish
Post by: JohnP on July 11, 2010, 07:48:24 PM
We (wife and I) were gone for a week riding the Greenbrier River Rail trail in WV. And gosh darn wouldn't you know it there was a nice truss bridge pair that required a long rest stop for examination.

I have a attached a photo of the finish. Orange and red rust with black paint still attached but peeling. Any ideas on getting this to look right in 1:48?

John


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: marc_reusser on July 12, 2010, 12:55:07 AM
There are two basic ttypes of peel shown in the image...one is smooth edged and one is curling.  The smooth edged would be easy to do with the Hairspray technique.  The peel requires a bit mre discussion....I have seen this effect created to "some" degreee of believability in 1/35......however....I think you would be hard pressed to represent this effect in a realistic and scale manner in 1/48.  [it can go overscale and caricatureish in a heartbeat]....that said, I think a slight edge/lip on the paint would be enough to convey the effect....and this could be achieved using the salt technique.....it could be used in combination with the HS to vary the effect.

I would approach the painting, by painting the entire bridge in the rust finish/texture/apearance that you want showing under the flaking paint (like that in the image)....then do the HS technique......top color would then be applied in varius tones of faded black and grey.....then chipped as per the HS method.

After painting I would follow up with some pigments, and some washes. Washes need to be done very carefully so that they dont overwhelm all the joints and inside corners on the steel members.




Marc


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: marc_reusser on July 12, 2010, 12:59:43 AM
Here's that flaking technique in 1/35

http://site.scratchmod.com/Crackle_Technique.php (http://site.scratchmod.com/Crackle_Technique.php)

Note that this is done on larger surfaces where the effect really has the ability to be worked/manipulated and happen due to the technique.......I think it would be much harder to achieve in a scale manner in the small confined surfaces of a 1/48 beam or girder.

.....but then that's what experimenting is all abut ;) ;D


MR


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: Chuck Doan on July 12, 2010, 07:50:16 AM
If you just did the HS chipping, you might try the Mig Jimenez method of applying a lighter highlight above the chip so it appears to be lifting.

When I have done the tape peel method, I have often gotten nice lifted edges, but preserving them is a challenge.


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: JohnP on July 12, 2010, 09:43:25 PM
Hey thanks gents. I will experiment first. I have that small 1:20.3 bridge I am building for an article (I hope). That might be a better place to try this first.

Is that Crackle stuff like any other acrylic medium such as used for scenery or water?

I see that type of finish on steel bridges a lot. Another type is a fading of black over silver or vice-versa from when the RR changed their mind. Then there is older iron, which actually rusts to a different shade of a blackish brown.

John


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 12, 2010, 10:50:41 PM
John --

I seem to recall seeing a show where an "antique" crackle finish was simulated on a piece of furniture using white glue as the crackle medium ... that said, it might be safer to stick with the products intended for that.  You'll find several at the craft store ... including little Deco Art bottles for a buck or so.  It seems to work best if there's acrylic UNDER and OVER the crackle medium.

Recently did some wood using that ... applied Vallejo matte varnish onto the wood ... then crackle medium ... then acrylic paint.  Worked really well as a non-toxic approach to doing peeling paint ... (tried it earlier without the undercoat and the results weren't as good).

Also ... EXPERIMENT ... seem to recall that the effect varies according to how thick the crackle medium is applied, how thick the top coat is applied and the drying time of the crackle coat.  Again, think it works best if there's a base coat of acrylic (paint, clear, whatever).

Good luck and show us the results and/or tests!

PS -- If you do a web search for "white glue crackle" you'll find lots of stuff ... example:
http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/how-to-apply-a-crackle-finish/index.html

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: DaveInTheHat on September 06, 2010, 06:56:28 PM
I got an effect close to what you're looking in HO scale by using salt.

I painted the tank with cheap red primer. Then spit on the tank (honest). Sprinkle salt all over it. and let it dry.

(http://images43.fotki.com/v1505/photos/2/914592/7556489/100_8856-vi.jpg)

Then a really thick coat of acrylic paint.

(http://images46.fotki.com/v1506/photos/2/914592/7556489/100_8857-vi.jpg)

Then rub the salt off.

(http://images50.fotki.com/v1512/photos/2/914592/7556489/100_8858-vi.jpg)

Some washes with black and brown A/I and a little bit of weathering powders adds a lot to it.


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: chester on September 07, 2010, 07:06:12 PM
I like that Dave. I wonder if doing several coats of different colors might look good. It's certain that the paint has been put on heavy over the years on your example. But would the owner have been able to use the same color paint each time? Good effect for the scale.


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: JohnP on September 07, 2010, 08:07:20 PM
Dave, I'd be afraid to do that. Egads what an ugly intermediate stage to the process. But it does show working with acrylics is possible.

Thanks, John


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: DaveInTheHat on September 07, 2010, 09:23:48 PM
Using several different colors works. I've seen it done on model cars.

It is sort of scary looking. This was the first time I tried it and I was surprised how well it turned out.


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: finescalerr on September 08, 2010, 02:08:48 AM
To my eye even the paint in the "after" photo looks too heavy. I suspect it would scale about an inch thick. Do you think you could achieve the same effect with a thinner coat? In other words the concept suggests promise; the execution reflects a first attempt. -- Russ


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: FichtenFoo on September 08, 2010, 08:18:19 AM
To my eye even the paint in the "after" photo looks too heavy. I suspect it would scale about an inch thick. Do you think you could achieve the same effect with a thinner coat? In other words the concept suggests promise; the execution reflects a first attempt. -- Russ
Have to agree there. The effect is very cool, but does look thick.

However imagine doing the thick acrylic coat in another rust tone instead for some larger scale super rusted stuff. The texture you achieved is great and with an all-rust subject at the right scale, it could look very cool.


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: DaveInTheHat on September 08, 2010, 10:47:48 AM
It is thick. Like really thick. I caked it on with a brush as thick as I could get it. This was my first attempt using this process.
I did a caboose in G scale and sprayed thinned acrylic paint and it worked better.

(http://images47.fotki.com/v1484/photos/2/914592/9005074/100_6229-vi.jpg)

(http://images40.fotki.com/v775/photos/2/914592/9005074/100_6223-vi.jpg)

For this I used a coat of primer as a base. Put salt on. Sprayed acrylic paint over it. Then a lighter color of red over thin coat of mineral spirits. I rubbed the salt off with a wire brush and highlighted everything with a dusting of weathering powders.


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: finescalerr on September 08, 2010, 01:59:44 PM
That doesn't work for me at all. The door looks as though you spattered paint randomly. The side also is too random and doesn't seem to reflect the way paint would weather and peel on a caboose side. Is it possible the salt technique doesn't lend itself to representing peels on painted wood?

My guess is that you are pretty new at trying the more sophisticated weathering techniques and haven't looked closely at photos of actual freight cars. This forum, as you probably know, is to teach you what doesn't work and to suggest ways to improve. My first suggestion would be to get some reference photos of the effect you want to create, then figure out a way to replicate them in your scale.

Chuck has covered wood weathering extensively here, on his site, and in my books. Several others have explained the salt technique on this forum in enough detail that you might be able to refine your approach with some minor modification. Marc and Chuck and others have used a chipping technique for painted metal that works beautifully but it is time consuming. For "normal" people like you and me the trick would be to figure out a way to approach their results but spend less time.

The more time you spend here, the sharper your eye will become and that alone will improve your modeling significantly.

Russ


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: DaKra on September 09, 2010, 05:10:20 AM
Side note to Dave in the Hat - some of us read the forum while eating breakfast.   Please refrain from descriptions of  techniques that involve bodily fluids.  Thank you. 



Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: marc_reusser on September 09, 2010, 05:28:11 AM
Side note to Dave in the Hat - some of us read the forum while eating breakfast.   Please refrain from descriptions of  techniques that involve bodily fluids.  Thank you. 




?????????? Did I miss something? ?????????

M


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: eTraxx on September 09, 2010, 07:57:20 AM
Side note to Dave in the Hat - some of us read the forum while eating breakfast.   Please refrain from descriptions of  techniques that involve bodily fluids.  Thank you. 




?????????? Did I miss something? ?????????

M
Was a reference Dave in the Hat made in that he used expectoration to set the salt. :)


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: Chuck Doan on September 09, 2010, 01:27:36 PM
I use saliva a lot in modelling.


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: FichtenFoo on September 09, 2010, 01:42:59 PM
"Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape."


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: finescalerr on September 10, 2010, 01:55:02 AM
I'm a chickenfat kind o' guy .... -- ssuR


Title: Re: How to model this rust finish
Post by: FichtenFoo on September 10, 2010, 12:51:41 PM
Hopefully the cooked variety! :P